Kim Kardashian West Says She Doesn’t Want More Than Four Kids

After North, Saint, and Chicago, Kim Kardashian West has room for at most one more.

In Elle‘s April cover story, the social media mogul and ardent Yeezy defender revealed that four kids would be her absolute maximum. “My home and my heart feel really full right now, in the best way,” she told Elle, adding, “I don’t think I could handle more than that. My time is spread really thin. And I think it’s important that in all couples, the mom gives the husband as much attention as the kids.”

In the interview, Kardashian West also opened up about what led her to have Chicago via gestational surrogacy. Sparing none of the grisly details, she said a doctor recommended gestational surrogacy for her third child after she experienced placenta accreta—a condition in which the placenta gets stuck—the first two times, requiring the doctor to painfully “scrape it off” with “his whole arm.” “It was the most painful,” she said, adding that Kris Jenner had to witness the first ordeal. “To this day, if you mention it to her, she’ll cry. It was traumatic.”

As for the gestational surrogacy that followed, Kardashian West said she knew as soon as she’d interviewed her carrier that she was the one. “It was a feeling,” she told Elle. “You know when you can trust someone.” After that came the selection of the embryo—Kardashian West told doctors to pick the “healthiest one,” which turned out to be a girl—and just a few lifestyle requests for the gestational carrier. She told Elle that she and the carrier attended doctor’s appointments together and stayed in close contact, that she wanted Chicago to be born in L.A. with the help of the doctor who had delivered her previous two children, and that she wanted the carrier to eat as organically as possible. While “this is just how she eats, so it was a good match for us,” Kardashian West also revealed that she wasn’t too strict with the diet. “I straight-up told her, ‘Look, I ate doughnuts every single day,'” she said. “‘If you want doughnuts and ice cream, go for it. Do whatever you feel. I’m not going to be picky like that. That’s just ridiculous.'”

“I hated being pregnant,” Kardashian West added. “But as much as I hated it, I still wished I could have done it on my own. The control is hard at the beginning. Once you let that go, it’s the best experience. I would recommend surrogacy for anybody.”